Game #1017 Tournament game#14 | Round 1 : 2019 PBEM Duel Tournament #14

redrum68 vs  marcuspers

Match Details

Rating 2 - Nice Game
Amount of Humans:2
Kind of Report:2019 PBEM Duel Tournament
Kind of game:   PBEM
Game-value: 43
Result Player Classes Races Team Points Extra Points Missed Points Quitter Rate
1 redrum68DreadnoughtOrcs145220here
2 marcuspersDreadnoughtElves2-180-20here
Posts to the game:
Published on Tue, 05 Nov 2019 13:29:24 +0100

Written by marcuspers
At least I cant edit the report.
Maybe need to be edited by the same person who initially reported the game or an admin.
Anyway, I played Orc Dreadnought and redrum High Elf Dreadnought.

Published on Mon, 04 Nov 2019 22:55:34 +0100

Written by Hiliadan
Hi! Please edit the report to update the class/race.

Published on Wed, 11 Sep 2019 04:39:57 +0200

Confirmed by redrum68
Confirmed by redrum68

Published on Tue, 03 Sep 2019 23:41:23 +0200

@Hiliadan - I don't see any option to Edit the report and it appears to be a loss based on the report I see below where shows marcus gaining points and me getting 0?

Published on Tue, 03 Sep 2019 23:29:13 +0200

Go to the report then select Edit the report.
It's already a win for you, I updated it.

Published on Tue, 03 Sep 2019 23:15:36 +0200

@Hiliadan - Not sure how to update the class/race? Also do we need to do something so it reports it as a win instead of a loss for me?

Published on Tue, 03 Sep 2019 21:29:18 +0200

Written by Hiliadan
Please update the class/race in the report and prepare for round 2.

Published on Tue, 03 Sep 2019 07:30:19 +0200

Good game. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the game (can discuss over chat if you don't want to post for everyone to see).

I just loaded it up and ended my turn. You could have just skipped my turn since you are surrendering.

Published on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 08:12:07 +0200

Yeah, after your turn the timer was automatically switched on and I forgot to turn it off so I missed my turn.

I will simply surrender when its my turn and we dont delay the tournament any longer.

Good game.

Published on Sat, 31 Aug 2019 00:01:02 +0200

Hi! So there was an additional delay of about 7 days following the last crash. In theory the deadline was 2 days ago... I'm going to check how much extra time we give you but we can't go on forever, it's putting round 2 at risk of exceeding time too.
So please consider for now you have at least +4 days, so that goes up to 2019-09-01 10:22 PM.

Here is the protocol:
1/ AFTER the deadline, the strategic turn is played until the last player in the turn order
2/ that player plays his turn, saves & quits, copy the save game to a backup folder
3/ that player re-enters the game and surrenders, then takes screenshots of all the scores (general, domain, research, military, happiness) . He does NOT end the turn. Instead he quits the game without ending the turn.
4/ he sends the screenshots to (regular and temporary) judges (Fluksen, Jonny Thunder and me)
5/ judges check the scores and take a decision

I think Marcus is the last player in the turn order?

Published on Fri, 30 Aug 2019 21:33:49 +0200

@Jonny Thunder - Thanks for the clarification. I had some confusion around debug mode and unfortunately had turned it off after getting an error and didn't realize I could turn it back on only after completing the turn.

The timer is still on and only has a few hours left for Marcus's turn. I was gonna turn it off but appears I can't now? I'm leaving for vacation soon so probably won't be back online for a few days.

Published on Fri, 30 Aug 2019 15:55:37 +0200

To redrum68:
We, the judges, had some discussions about if the video is an adequate proof or not. Just to clarifiy: in the majority´s opinion the video per se is adequate but since you were instructed to play in debug mode and did not do it, we could not accept it without debug log. So, we agreed that it must be a warning without proof.

Published on Fri, 30 Aug 2019 01:21:18 +0200

Turn 27 played and I can confirm it skipped my previous turn.

As a heads up, I'm going to be on vacation this weekend as its a holiday (Labor Day) in the US so probably won't be able to play my turn during that time.

Published on Thu, 29 Aug 2019 14:04:39 +0200

Ok, yes, it's likely that your turn 26 was skipped, marcus played his turn and your turn 27 was about to be skipped so the timer de-activated itself.

marcus should have de-activated the timer after your message on 26/08 and not played his turn 26. We'll discuss that with judges... Now it's problematic because we would need a double revert to come back to your turn 26.
We usually don't allow reverts and it might not even be technically possible to do 2 reverts (in my experience, it sometimes does not allow reverts beyond 1).

So... please continue the game. You don't need to send us the video for the turn since the turn of the reload was skipped (but please do record it, just like the others, and please do activate debug mode).

Hopefully the match can end without other issues...

Published on Thu, 29 Aug 2019 02:30:03 +0200

The turn I had the crash on was turn 26 and since then I haven't replayed that turn or any other turns (was about to replay my turn yesterday but got the skip notification before I started). I got 3 notifications over the last day or so:
1. That my turn was skipped. I believe this was because Marcus forgot deactivate the timer so it skipped my turn 26.
2. That it was then my turn 27 which I believe means Marcus then played his turn 27 after my turn skipped.
3. That the turn timer paused because all turns were skipped and guessing this happened because it was gonna skip my turn again.

Not sure how many turns were skipped and if it was only my turns or Marcus's turns as well. From the PBEM games menu, it appears its turn 27 my turn which would seem to confirm the above and my turn 26 was skipped and Marcus played his turn 27. My guess is the timer paused because it was about to then skip my turn again since Marcus hadn't deactivated the timer.

Published on Thu, 29 Aug 2019 01:00:00 +0200

To clarify: on which turn did the reload happen? If turn 25, then after did redrum play his turn? I understand he did not and the turn was skipped. Then did marcus play turn 26? And then was turn 26 of redrum skipped again?
Or are we still on turn 25 of redrum (the one which crashed)? So the turn reverted itself back to 25 before marcus could play his turn 26?

In theory this "auto-revert" happens only when all players in the turn skipped his turn so it looks like it bugged.

If we are in the situation where marcus did not play the turn after the crash of redrum and the "reloaded" turn was skipped, @redrum: please play that turn and record as requested before.

Published on Thu, 29 Aug 2019 00:26:35 +0200

Could you please clarify when the last turns were played with turn number? The crash was on turn 24? (On smartphone, not yet at home)

Published on Wed, 28 Aug 2019 20:11:16 +0200

After these strange things its better wait for Hiliadan, the timer was automatically removed anyway.

Published on Wed, 28 Aug 2019 20:08:27 +0200

Ok. Do we need to wait for the judges to comment or can I play my turn tonight?

Published on Wed, 28 Aug 2019 19:38:52 +0200

Yes, I was at work and no chance to stop timer and only saw this when i got home just now.

Published on Wed, 28 Aug 2019 19:36:47 +0200

I got the message as well and not sure what it exactly means. I haven't tried playing my turn yet. 

Published on Wed, 28 Aug 2019 19:32:24 +0200

Never seen this before:

Dont know if redrum tried make his turn or what, but i made my turn last night 18.42 and today at 19.06 this comes.
So seems he missed a 2nd turn and server paused the game automatically.

Seems like a glitch, as this forces a new turn for redrum, despite missing another turn.

Published on Wed, 28 Aug 2019 09:50:52 +0200

Damn, yes the turn was skipped. In all the text I missed that you asked me to turn off the timer while we asked for clarification (while none was needed in my opinion).
With that said, the timer only expired after Hiliadan answered once again, and 3h after your stated playtime.

Published on Wed, 28 Aug 2019 00:54:52 +0200

It appears to have skipped my turn now...

Can I just play my next turn or do I need to wait? I'm fine with just skipping that turn at this point.

Published on Tue, 27 Aug 2019 21:32:13 +0200

I sent to you by chat message the request to replay the same moves. I admitted I forgot to post about it.

The save thing is not a judge requirement, it's just an advice since you seemed concerned you would crash again.
And the reason why you got a warning was made clear 3 days ago: not playing with debug mode while it was requested.

Published on Tue, 27 Aug 2019 00:59:14 +0200

I'll look to continue the game tonight or tomorrow night (traveling today).

I'm not stalling the game and don't appreciate you accusing me of doing so. We are further along in a few weeks than some of the games were over 2 months. And really besides the times where you've given me warnings without proof and taken a long time to judge them, we've played at a pretty good pace.

You didn't make things clear on what the expectations to avoid future warnings without proof or best way to continue the current turn. Now you have added to make sure to replay the exact same moves and save before the battle which both make sense but you can't expect me to read your mind.

There is no way I can memorize 15-20 minutes of moving units around the map... so will need to be switching between the recording and playing the map. I really wish the PBEM would do some sort of iron man autosave either after each action or at some time interval to avoid having to replay the whole turn.

Published on Mon, 26 Aug 2019 23:01:30 +0200

Please stop stalling the game, it's the 2nd time. Given your current position, it is even more adequate.

Not having the debug mode is a sufficient reason for giving you the warning without proof and I clearly asked you to continue playing and explicitly said I posted now so that you can continue.

Finally, something I forgot to post before: can you please of course replay the exact same moves? And record it to prove it.

Regarding the current turn, as much as possible try to memorize your previous moves to replay them. If you play in windowed mode as you do, there should be no crash. If you have a crash before the end of replaying your moves, that won't be an issue. Once you've completed the previous moves and before the fight, please save & quit so that we're sure you don't have to replay that in case of a crash (very unlikely).

Published on Mon, 26 Aug 2019 14:35:07 +0200

Ok. I was waiting for the final judges explanation and discussing it with Hiliadan. Given that I'm receiving another warning "without proof" even with providing a video and now that if I receive another it would be a disqualification, I want to understand if not having debug on is the only reason for it so I can ensure to avoid it moving forward. I misunderstood (my fault) last time and after I had an error with turning debug on thought I needed to wait til the next game to activate it (like most mods) but I now understand it just needs to be after finishing the next turn.

I also would like clarification on the expectations for finishing the current turn since its already crashed once and there isn't any way I can turn debug on as it will cause an error. But by trying to rewatch the recording to perform the exact same moves, recording the turn, and playing the game, that will be a lot of window switching on a turn that has already crashed once so want to be clear what the expectations are to provide proof for this turn and turns moving forward if it would crash again.

If you can please deactivate the timer til we get clarification on the above from the judges that would be appreciated.

Sorry again for the delays and hopefully we can continue soon.

Published on Mon, 26 Aug 2019 09:08:18 +0200

Timer activated, btw.

Published on Mon, 26 Aug 2019 09:06:59 +0200

Hi redrum, if I turn on timer after Hiliadans message that you can play again, you miss another turn.
Please try play within the 24h that we are supposed, we will wont likely not finish the game and delaying the game without reason results in a malus in the score. 

Published on Sat, 24 Aug 2019 23:13:58 +0200

Written by Hiliadan
Hi! I can already tell you redrum gets a warning for reload without adequate proof and it's a final warning. So if another reload without proper proof happens in this match, it will be a disqualification. We are still discussing some of the elements so I'll complete later (probably tomorrow) with the reasoning behind the "without adequate proof", but in order to allow you to restart earlier, I post now without waiting.

redrum, please make sure to activate debug mode after this turn, it is critical.
You can continue. We're also discussing a potential extra time to compensate for this further judging time, more on this later (probably tomorrow).

Published on Fri, 23 Aug 2019 17:40:56 +0200

After this last 2 days of judges conference, do we get 2 more days?

Published on Fri, 23 Aug 2019 10:28:24 +0200

Written by MARKYMARK
Test About Issue with Gameblog/Reportcomments (not merged)

Published on Thu, 22 Aug 2019 22:51:28 +0200

Yes you posted on the 17th, but seems this message is gone.

Published on Thu, 22 Aug 2019 22:36:09 +0200

Hi! I thought I had posted the time extension here several days ago, not sure what happened, sorry about that... You have +8 days to compensate from previous judging & associated time, so the deadline is 2019-08-28 10:22 PM.

I'm sending a message to Jonny and Fluksen (temporary judge for your game) about the crash of redrum.

Published on Wed, 21 Aug 2019 06:29:04 +0200

Got a crash during a beginning of a battle. I was recording the turn so will send the video to the judges once its uploaded.

Published on Sat, 17 Aug 2019 12:14:37 +0200

Written by Hiliadan
Hi, you get an extra 8 days to compensate for judging time and associated delays.

So the deadline for you is 2019-08-28 10:22 PM GMT+3.

Published on Wed, 14 Aug 2019 23:30:10 +0200

Turn 20, redrums turn. I do turn 21 tomorrow probably.

Published on Wed, 14 Aug 2019 22:49:04 +0200

Hi! What turn did you reach?

Published on Fri, 09 Aug 2019 08:13:48 +0200

Turned off the timer for now.