Game #787 Tournament game#60 | Round 8 : 2017 PBEM Duel Tournament #60

Hiliadan vs  marcuspers

Match Details

Amount of Humans:2
Kind of Report:2017 PBEM Duel Tournament
Kind of game:   PBEM
Game-value: 47
Result Player Classes Races Team Points Extra Points Missed Points Quitter Rate
1 HiliadanWarlordTigrans11000here
2 marcuspersArchdruidHumans2-100-20here
Posts to the game:
Published on Sat, 02 Jun 2018 11:15:30 +0200

787 | Age of Wonders 3

Published on Sat, 02 Jun 2018 11:15:30 +0200

Challenging and interesting game! <smiletext0> Going to post the videos soon.

Published on Wed, 30 May 2018 08:48:04 +0200

Congratulations, well played, good luck in the rest of the tournament.

Published on Wed, 23 May 2018 21:05:53 +0200

Just came home from work, was a long day, will do my turn in the morning before I leave for work.

Published on Mon, 21 May 2018 21:33:30 +0200

Enjoy <smiletext0>

Published on Mon, 21 May 2018 21:19:36 +0200

Hi Marcus, today is a non-worked day in French so I was hoping to play 2 turns, but I guess it'll be for next week end. We reached the stage when there is a lot to comment each turn, so I can't wait to see what's up next! <smiletext0>

EDIT: ah, looks like I posted just when you finished your turn

Published on Sun, 13 May 2018 20:38:16 +0200

I'm at the airport and no electricity plug so I don't want to take the risk to play my turn on battery, since it crashed a couple of times in the past. So I will probably not be able to play my turn today (I arrive at home pretty late), sorry about that.

Published on Sun, 13 May 2018 15:29:23 +0200

haha somehow I was thinking about WWI. I think Iwatched video yesterday
What mistake? hehe

Published on Sun, 13 May 2018 12:42:02 +0200

Well, I just made a massive mistake so we can consider the gift returned and the Christmas Truce is once more. <smiletext0>
(I don't understand the reference of Christmas though, we are in the summer months? )

Published on Sat, 12 May 2018 21:34:41 +0200

Unfair game of marcuspers! Hili was trying to make a "Christmas truce" and you attacked him without warning <smiletext6>

Published on Sat, 12 May 2018 13:25:20 +0200

No worries, you was nice enough to place your units next to me so we probably save a few turns there <smiletext0>

Published on Sat, 12 May 2018 00:11:20 +0200

Ok thanks Fistandantilus.

@Marcus: sorry, couldn't finish the turn today, lacked time. But I'll finish it tomorrow morning, basically only lacking the recording.

Published on Fri, 11 May 2018 10:30:58 +0200

After a brief talk with Gladis we decided on a two weeks extension so the new deadline is June 8th. Let's hope you can finish the game by then.

Published on Thu, 10 May 2018 10:09:38 +0200

We have reached turn 24, and I'm not sure how many days are left?
The official countdown says 15 days (25th of May is the deadline), but we didn't start until the 28th of March.
We are doing roughly 1 turn per day, never more, and sometimes less.
With current pace we will reach turn 35-39 which might be enough to finish the game, but also a high probability that we don't.

I've 2 days of business trip planned 16-17th of May where I wont be able to play on my Windows computer.

If we get an extension for the time between 12-22nd April where I couldn't play my turn, that would probably bring us over the finish-line (just!).

Published on Thu, 10 May 2018 07:16:02 +0200

Unfortunately the third person I contacted and accepted to act as judge failed to reply for awhile so I guess I'll have to replace him. I don't think it's that critical as Gladis and I are on the same page for now so a third judge is not strictly necessary but I'm looking to find another one nevertheless to speed up the process should other issues arise.

In the meanwhile try to speed up the pace as much as you can, deadline is near and while we are discussing an extention as always I'd like games to finish in time and avoid deciding them on score <smiletext0>

Published on Tue, 08 May 2018 22:53:09 +0200

Hi, sorry that I couldn't take my turn yesterday, there was no wifi at the hotel I was staying at and the 4G didn't work either because there was no mobile phone coverage.... I didn't expect that. For the other days, I should be able to take 1 turn a day. I'm back from vacation on the 14th, then should be able to take 2 turns at least on 1 day a week (of week end).

Published on Sun, 06 May 2018 00:58:19 +0200

As far as I understand, Fist appointed me as 2nd judge.
I read all Messages and watched the Videos (except the 50 min Video on Marcus´ PC, took just glimpses there)
For me they are all restarts with proof - we all know such Videos never can be used at court, but in Terms of a PC game tourney, they are sufficient

My Suggestion would be to play your turns on your PC - at least the ones with naval battles.
AFAIK, you only had this Problems on water-based fights?
Maybe you can get another smart Laptop for faster turns <smiletext1>

Published on Wed, 02 May 2018 07:04:22 +0200

Still haven't heard back from all the judges about the crashes so, as pace seems not to be what bothers you, wait until you have news about it.

Published on Tue, 01 May 2018 16:04:12 +0200

I'm on a business trip with only access to my Mac until Saturday 5th of May.
I can play my turns, and record in full, but I leave it to the judge/s to decide if I should play my turns or wait until I'm back on Saturday morning.

Same message is sent to Fist in a PM.

Published on Fri, 27 Apr 2018 11:29:45 +0200

Regarding the switch of computer, I assume it will be considered the same as your comment here:
"Yes, and actually it's only 1 warning with proof (+ 1 without proof) because the 3rd reload was requested by us to be able to launch in debug mode."

Switching computer to play the turn, or launching a turn in a different mode, should be considered the same as it will both trigger the same warning.

Fist have shown some unwillingness to self assign extra judges, so maybe we both ask 1 person each to be an extra judge for our match, even if it's not our responsibility. I feel sorry for the extra judges though, reviewing hours of material - if that is what you want. There is videos of each crash, so it's not "hard" to judge.

Regarding your comment: "Do you have proofs for the 4 reloads?" 
At each crash Fist have given the go ahead to replay the turn, and that wouldn't be the case if it was considered without proof - as that would render a DQ - see rule 4  (If no proof of a justified crash or in case of repeated reloading (during one match or during the tournament as a whole), the judges have full power to disqualify the player.)

I'm recording my turns in full on my Windows computer now, and so far so good, no crashes, so it's likely the problem lay with the Mac compatibility at naval battles.

But I agree a "judging" by 2 new people would eliminate any doubt you may have.

Published on Thu, 26 Apr 2018 21:23:44 +0200

@Fistandantilus: who are the additional judges? Do you have proofs for the 4 reloads? How do we count the computer change?
And I'm a bit unhappy with the fact that Marcus was able to see scores.
On my side, I didn't watch any of the videos or the screenshots to try not to get any strategic information that can affect the match.

Going to load my turn then...

Published on Thu, 26 Apr 2018 09:42:18 +0200

Worked on the Windows computer!
But it was horrible to play, took such a long time for each move!

I will upload the video to YouTube and share with the judges (its 52min long so whoever will watch it, enjoy!)

So in summary, 4 restarts before the revert, 1 restart after the revert to switch computer.
With my calculations, that would be 4 restarts with proof and 1 forced restart to play on a different computer.

I will let Hiliadan or Fist update the spreadsheet with the restarts.

Published on Thu, 26 Apr 2018 03:03:36 +0200

Try it again with the other pc and let's see if it works then.

Published on Wed, 25 Apr 2018 17:34:24 +0200

OK, so the devs did reply.

Basically saying that its nothing they can do at this time, as the error/issue is likely needing a patch and more investigation to be solved. They do mention that there might be an issue with the mod used, and that the save can be corrupted, but it's unlikely. Since Hiliadan did revert the turn and I started "fresh" that could also be fixed, but seems stupid to try a 4th time at the same site, with the same computer.
But with your permission I will load the turn on my Windows computer (another ironman notification) and try the same battle again (obviously recorded).

Message from devs:
If the workaround doesn’t work then it is most likely something that would require a patch to be uploaded. This is quite some overhead for the devs, and it’s extremely busy for the devs right now (for still secret reasons) which makes it unlikely that it can be looked at in short term.

As for the question where the PBEM save gets “corrupted”: technically yes, but practically it’s unlikely. In case of doubt there’s functionality to revert a turn and then continue from one turn before. But I am pretty sure this PBEM save is not corrupted.

However, in case that you have mods active in that PBEM then it is definitely possible that the save-game is not compatible anymore due to reasons such as a mod got updated or changed otherwise. It could explain the crash, but it’s hard to tell without a thorough investigation.

Published on Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:53:52 +0200


So, I reposted in the topic on Triumphs forum (on Friday and yesterday), and was hoping for some advice/support, so that we could go ahead with the proposed solution (3. Ask devs for more feedback and solution). Maybe wait another day, but in the meantime:

The second best solution, in my opinion, would be to try play the turn on my Windows computer (proposal 4).

Since we already wait a long time to continue the game, maybe we can accept Fist ruling on this, and if problem continues you have to appoint 2 judges. Hellbrick, AIX, Xlnt, Skuns, Blackwill, Gladis are all good options (even though I eliminated 2 of them, so there might be some bad blood <smiletext0> ).

Published on Mon, 23 Apr 2018 17:24:30 +0200

We cannot appoint judges ourselves.
"1. If 1 or 2 of the judges are involved in the game which needs arbitration, the 3rd judge should name two temporary judges to replace them for this arbitration."

Ok, then let's hope the devs can suggest another solution to Marcus.

Published on Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:49:57 +0200

I would go for #3.

I see little point in trying the same thing for the fourth time hoping something changes.. and skipping fights cannot be a solution as it penalizes Marcus too much, what if this issue happens again in another battle?

If you want to appoint another couple of judges go ahead <smiletext0>

Published on Sun, 22 Apr 2018 20:35:13 +0200

Fistandantilus, what's your opinion?
As I suggested earlier by PM, I think it would be necessary for matches when 2 judges are involved and that are a round 8 match (so "more important" than round 1 matches) that additional judges are nominated temporarily, as planned by the rules. That would apply also for round 9 for whoever fights gabthegab, we would need to have a 3rd judge I think, because the consequences are much more important on the result of who win the tournament (or ends up 2nd or 3rd).

Published on Sun, 22 Apr 2018 09:41:07 +0200

Well the revert worked to the extent where I'm at the same position as before the "surrender" - i.e. I can play my turn again.

There is a few possibilities as I see it:
1. I skip the battle where the game crashed 3 times
2. I try replay the turn in the exact same way as the first 4 times.
3. Wait for developers to give feedback on the crash report/log and provide other solutions.
4. Play the turn on a different machine.
5. Surrender again.

Published on Sat, 21 Apr 2018 20:11:04 +0200

Looks like I can't revert twice, so it looks like it's technically not possible to come back to before the surrender.

Could you please send me the turn again so that I can see the score, etc. ? I did not open the turn before I reverted (in case it was possible to continue playing).

Published on Fri, 20 Apr 2018 07:40:45 +0200

If you think reverting the game will fix it, be my guest. But then revert it back to you, so I get a "fresh" turn.
4 crashes in the same turn, 3 at the exact same place. If I have to skip sites to play the game, then it's not really worth playing is it?

Published on Thu, 19 Apr 2018 22:50:51 +0200

I haven't looked at your post on the forum or at the video. I'm a bit taken aback.... If you can enter the game without crashing and it's just a fight that crashes the game, an intermediary solution might have been to skip that fight. And you didn't really give time for the devs to work on the issue....
Sorry for you that it ends like this, it's not really what I had in mind for our match.
We can still revert the turn and replay that turn.... ?

Published on Thu, 19 Apr 2018 19:27:10 +0200

I will make all videos of the crashes available and everyone can see for themselves.
Maybe our game got corrupted somehow.
The final crash:
2nd to last crash
3rd to last crash
4th to last crash (application not responding)

Published on Thu, 19 Apr 2018 19:25:16 +0200

Im sad it will end like this, especially since im ahead 33%
Oh well, good luck in the next game Hiliadan.

Published on Thu, 19 Apr 2018 19:19:01 +0200

Yeah, i will try now, and if it doesn't work I will enter the game once more and surrender.

Published on Thu, 19 Apr 2018 19:07:01 +0200

Let's try what the devs suggested. If that still doesn't work I'm afraid forfeiting the game to Hiliadan is a serious possibility <smiletext6>

Published on Thu, 19 Apr 2018 18:39:58 +0200

Just to be clear, i didnt try the solution of the developers until I've heard from Fist.
3 crashes and counting, just to be 100% clear.

Published on Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:59:41 +0200

Devs understood the urgency and replied:
Hi marcuspers1,

Thanks for the detailed report.

One thing you can try that should work around the crash:
1) With the Finder navigate to: /Users/<username>/Library/Application Support/AoW3/
2) Create a new folder: Config
3) Create a new file (in Config folder): Game.cfg
- Path should now be: /Users/<username>/Library/Application Support/AoW3/Config/Game.cfg
4) Edit Game.cfg with a text editor and in in the first line write: SHADER_SIZE=2
5) Save file as plain text 

If this does not resolve the crash, then send a save game from before initiating combat to:

Can try this?

Published on Thu, 19 Apr 2018 09:41:02 +0200

And of course I'm happy to forfeit the game so the tournament can continue in my absence.
Other PBEM games have been possible to play. Also in the Top 8 game I had a crash after a naval battle (coincidence?) but was able to do the same battle successfully after the crash, not such luck here.