Recommended turn order based on play times:

Well I put together quick a PBEM No Hero Conversion mod. For some reason it hasn't populated on the workshop page yet, but I was able to download it and run it. It check out with previous test. Since it is not on the main board yet, try following me on steam at cbower and search by authors you follow. This sort of mod is very easy and I don't really care what we decide to replace things with or if we want to further modify heroes. Playing around with the existing, take some notes and we can put a better copy out there soon. I don't do icon work, so any suggestions will have to use existing icons, I can make new abilities, but it's best that they template off of existing abilities. I put this together in like an 90 minutes including testing each hero so be gentle. If we want to talk more about this stuff I suggest we put together a skype group to chat or talk. But for now I will take suggestions and info here.

for test you may want to use cheats in single player:
ctrl+alt+c will bring up the cheat menu. If you select your hero first, bring up the cheat menu and type hauer you will level the hero.

url:
http://steamcommunity.com/sha...

Some good stuff here.
I have to agree with xlnt that less sites is maybe not a good idea, because it greatly reduces the things to do a turn.

Removing mind control completely completely rebalances the game and is extremely tricky.
Personally I think a Necro can't like without ghouling since it's economy is crippled. Not really thought too deeply about it, but I would restrict ghouling to death bringers, but that would make Necros extremely weak early game. 
Keep in mind that all others won't be able to mindcontrol though.

I do like Hiliadan suggestions and as I said elsewhere I do believe settler start is part of the problem too as it removes the empire building aspect of the game. Your initial settlement starts producing 'decent' stuff too late and makes the 'convert' way of producing units too much stronger.
I also agree with cbower in that 'convert abilities' on heroes are the main problem, removing or nerfing them could prevent a lot of the current abuse.

I would also like we start discussing this stuff now as opposed to the end of the tourneament (even if it's 6 months or a year away) so we have better understanding of balance (and a ready to play mod) when the eventual next one starts.
Meanwhile we could playtest this things setting up other games (FFA or duels) designed to test the proposed changes to see the impact of them in game. I have zero modding skills but can help with playing time if there is people interested in joining a playtesters group.

I played with the modding tools a little bit, I think I could probably do this. I think you leave the abilities themselves alone, and you just remove them from the heroes and replace them with something else. It's only really a problem on the heroes. The 2nd thing I think is we create like 4 specializations, adventurer, lord, king, emperor. Each will have either bonus or penalties base on level. Then the those specializations need to be selected based on your battlefield ranking. Essentially it's like handicapping in bowling. I don't find it fun to slaughter some one, and it's not fun to be slaughtered. I think if we did some tweaks based on skill level using the ratings system of this site, we could create a more competitive gaming experience. I would use the leveling system from triumph and adjust it, and apply some things to heroes. 

agree with all except less sites - if anything, there should be more sites, because the game is no fun if you sit around and do nothing. There are too few actions to do during a turn as it is already - the game is far from the (nearly) perfect way the map/objects are in HoMM3.

about the conversion: it's too deep into the design of the game - we should be extra, extra careful with this one. like change the chances of all types of mind control to 20-40% OR change it to get the unit for the duration of the battle ONLY. but this will change the balance of the classes a lot - because it was tested for some classes to have a lot of conversion.

Hi guys!
After removing incorrect votes (people not in the tournament or people eliminated), we've got 60% for using a mod (either Zaskow's full balance mod or limited edition) and 40% for continuing as now. (that doesn't take into account the last vote, probably cbower).

Taking into account this result, the judges took a decision: 2 judges decided to continue as now, and 1 was for using a limited edition of the balance mod.
So we continue as now.
The reasoning is:
- players joined the tournament with the current rules, which do not plan for using a mod, so it would not be fair to penalize 40% of players who want to stick with the current rules
- some players already got eliminated with the current rules, and it would not be fair to them to change in mid-course


Personally, I agree with cbower, the settings are not the best. We can rediscuss them when the tournament is over but I would favour:
- balance mod for Necro, XP, convertion
- larger map (between small and medium)
- less sites
- heroes capped to lvl 15

any type of mind control is OP and as the game is right now - it's all about it

so no matter the class/race - all i have to do and strife to do is convert by any means as much as i can units from the map. But this will change the whole design of the game!

It doesn't seem like everyone will agree, which will make it hard to use for ongoing tournaments. Personally though I plan to be more selective about my future games. Looking for setups that do not rely so heavily on converts, ghoul cursing, and power leveling. I just don't enjoy it that much anymore, looking for different experiences. I will finish out this tournament, but I probably won't join another one like this. Maybe we can setup some other types of tournaments though.

Just a comment regarding the poll. I think that the way you have it set up doesn't really reflect the views of people accurately due to vote-splitting.

For myself, I don't care if we use Zaskow's mod, or if we use a reduced PBEM-version mod, but I was only allowed to vote for one of those two options. I think that we should consider using a mod, and that regardless of the mod selected we should constantly be evaluating whether or not we want to change it.

The way that the tournament is set up, people can't chose the same class twice in a row, right? Does that mean that all the people that won playing as necromancers won't be able to play them in the next round? If the necromancer issue is as big as people say, it will be weird having the winner basically be the person that got lucky with their match-ups and avoided playing against a necromancer on their "off-round."

I'm afraid most people are content with the way it is, since there isn't much noise about it.

I'd love to change anything that converts, but I can see that might be too extreme.

Yes AlX, I fully agree with you. The stats provided by the Battlefield (e.g. here for the 16 players tournament: http://www.the-battlefield.co... can help do that and that's what we would do if the decision was taken to use a "PBEM tournament edition" balance mod. But if we choose this, we should not aim too big, and provide as few modifications as possible, in order to solve the most urgent problems.

So far, we have 12 voters and 58% against using a mod to improve balance. I find it a bit surprising. Does it mean the majority of players think the current balance is satisfactory?
Using a mod is pretty simple and we can limit the fixes to the most urgent issues, so "A reduced, PBEM tournament edition, balance mod fixing or reducing main issues (Necro, XP farming, ...)" clearly seems a the best solution to me.


For those who haven't yet, please vote here: http://www.the-battlefield.co...

Hail to the Theos!


but on the serious note - let's analyze which class/race was selected most throughout the tournament so far. Understand the reasons (necro - fast leveling, ghoul curse, SL, UP; theo - healing effects, resistance, attack buffs, convert, divine justicars), and then debuff all of these classes/races. Buff the underrated ones - and evaluate changes further. I think that' s the only true way to achieve some sort of equilibrium.

And theos ARE OPed

Ok but then it doesn't mean using a balance mod is the wrong answer, it just means the fixes are inappropriate and need refinement. We can definitely improve the fixes with Zaskow.

Round 3 of winner bracket and round 4 of loser bracket of 16 players tournament was 3 Theo (including a mirror match), 3 Necro and 2 other classes, the 3 Necro won. It would be great if we could avoid that.

Ghoul Curse at lvl 11/13/15 is not the greatest of the issues and there is virtually no difference if i get to lvl 11 on turn9 or i get it on turn7 and 9th level. I have done extreme leveling of 2 necromancers to ghoul curses before i get the chance to summon my 1st unit (besides the starting ones). And frankly i already had several tier3 units (; Stiffen Limbs is the real OP thing and even without it there are ways to abuse the dungeons, namely banshees (but it will be on later turns). Anyway - SL lasting 3 turns is an ok fix but not really.. i mean it sounds like a fix but i still manage to abuse it and it continues to be easy ): I can't do this with Slayer's Doubt - hint, hint

@everyone: some issues related to the Necro class and to the way XP is earned (which can lead to abnormal plays in tactical combat, in order to maximize XP) have been reported and are impacting the tournament.
Using a mod that reduces or removes these issues could be a solution for the next round of the tournament. After discussions with the other 2 judges, Fistandantilus and Markymark (who do not all agree that a mod would be a good idea), we submit the following poll to you: http://www.the-battlefield.co...

The question is simple: do you want to play with a mod in the following rounds, in order to solve the most urgent issues?
We could use Zaskow's existing mod. You can find a full changelog here: http://steamcommunity.com/sha...
Or we could use an extract of the modifications of his mod that fix the most pressing issues for PBEM, namely:
General changes
- Nymphs and Nightshade Fairies deleted from reward set on Spring of Life (I hope completely - need volunteers for detailed testing). Blight Tusk Boar and Bleak Warg added to reward set instead.
- Max XP interactions for each tier were changed to 8/8/10/12 for tier 1, tier 2, tier 3, tier 4 accordingly (was 10/10/12/14).
Necromancer
- Necromancer Heroes can gain Inflict Ghoul Curse on level 11 (was 9) for 10 pts (was 7).
- Greater Reanimate Undead – works only on YOUR undeads, restores 75% HP (was 100%).
Other Changes
- Fix for wrong description of Polearm bonus damage (IRL it’s +4, on display was +5).

Please vote! Judges will then see what to do according to the results.

@16 players tournament: start date of round 5: 3 March 2016, so until 3 May 2016 more or less.
Reminder of warnings given:
gabthegab 1 reload justified with screenshot during round 3 Hiliadan (not officially given) 1 Reload without proof (screenshot, etc.) during round 2 AlXStormrage 1 reload with screenshot during round 4 cbower 1 Slightly strange reload, without proof (screenshot, etc.) during round 2
Please report any reloads which occurred during round 4.
So far, I think judges have received no class / race but mine.

@2nd 8 players tournament:
We still need the class / race from gladis and EarL. Start date of round 1: 29 February 2016, end date 29 April 2016 more or less

@16 players tournament:
Round 4 just finished. There is currently a bug in the roster but the matches are:

Lightform vs gabthegab

Eskild vs Hiliadan

AlX vs cbower

Please send your class / race to the judges (Eskild, don't send to me obviously) and prepare for round 5.

The roster will be fixed soon.

We've got our 32nd player! ehall20 has joined.

rrrookie
Fistandantilus
Tussel
EarL1893
mauvebutterfly
gladis
hatifnat
ehall20

Please get ready! You can read the rule here: http://www.the-battlefield.co...
Your matchs has veen generated, you can see them here: http://www.the-battlefield.co... (menu 3. PBEM Duel Tournament 2015 / Cup Roster) Please send by private message your class / race for round 1 to at least of the judge (Markymark, Fistandantilus and me).
Then the host (first player on the game's page or player on top in the roster) will have to send screenshots of the setting as required in the rules, preferably in windowed mode.
Then you can start!

Good luck!

ehall20 joined !!

No Life quitted!